Curse

Cure For Road Rage · Jun 28, 2008, 10:51 PM // 22:51

I came up with a build that sacrifices all defence for heavy damage.
1) zojun's shot
2) point blank shot
3) dual shot
4) needling shot
5) distracting shot
6) i am the strongest!
7) conjure flame
8) glass arrows
16 expertise, 9 marksmanship, 9 fire magic
for the pvp version, I replace d-shot with whirling defence, and IATS with rez signet. from experience, i've found that enemies die too fast for d-shot to be useful. cept bosses, of course.
very dependent on healing from pve heroes and pvp monks, but still extremely satisfying killing things left, right, and centre using a class that's all about interrupting/condition spreading.

any comments and suggestions are welcome.

Trvth Jvstice · Jun 28, 2008, 11:12 PM // 23:12

I like trying different builds on my Ranger with my Hero/Henches. I have a great team set up and as long as I guide my team properly, we usually do fine. That said, I can't ever imagine being in a team and someone saying, "OK, we have Monks, now we need to get a few high damage characters." "GLF Rangers, high damage only! - no noobs!"

I'm sure your build does fine damage for a Ranger, but I sincerely doubt it would fill the "Damage" slot in a well built team. If you're playing with HH it doesn't matter what you run, but in most normal teams you would probably be expected to shutdown enemies or apply pressure with degen.

Also, I think it's a good idea when posting this sort of build, to show how much damage it does against the Master of Damage.

Miska Bow · Jun 29, 2008, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

I like trying different builds on my Ranger with my Hero/Henches. I have a great team set up and as long as I guide my team properly, we usually do fine. That said, I can't ever imagine being in a team and someone saying, "OK, we have Monks, now we need to get a few high damage characters." "GLF Rangers, high damage only! - no noobs!"

I'm sure your build does fine damage for a Ranger, but I sincerely doubt it would fill the "Damage" slot in a well built team. If you're playing with HH it doesn't matter what you run, but in most normal teams you would probably be expected to shutdown enemies or apply pressure with degen.

Also, I think it's a good idea when posting this sort of build, to show how much damage it does against the Master of Damage.

Best way to resume what a ranger is: Jack of all trades, Master of none.

I currently playing lots of H/H. I find that if i synergize with a nasty ele hero i can inflict lots of conditions.

Me with [barrage] on shocking bow, air/water ele with [Glimmering Mark][Freezing Gust]= Major lights out, and some free food for your MM hero's minions. (pretty good as an opening attack on a grouped up bunch of Minions wannabe)

Basically you can inflict a lot of dmg, but synergy with the rest of your team is a must (but then, synergy applies to all profession).

Rhamia Darigaz · Jun 29, 2008, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cure For Road Rage

I came up with a build that sacrifices all defence for heavy damage.
1) zojun's shot
2) point blank shot
3) dual shot
4) needling shot
5) distracting shot
6) i am the strongest!
7) conjure flame
8) glass arrows
16 expertise, 9 marksmanship, 9 fire magic
for the pvp version, I replace d-shot with whirling defence, and IATS with rez signet. from experience, i've found that enemies die too fast for d-shot to be useful. cept bosses, of course.
very dependent on healing from pve heroes and pvp monks, but still extremely satisfying killing things left, right, and centre using a class that's all about interrupting/condition spreading.

any comments and suggestions are welcome.

wtf? why on earth would you take out d-shot, especially on the pvp version, and for whirling defense?
id suggest the standard cripshot bar or something like that for the pvp version of this build, as it will do more to hurt the opposing team than any attempt at a bow dps build
^my point here is that while dps bow builds can be fun and viable in pve, its ridiculous to include a pvp variant, especially when that variant is even more sup-par than the original

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miska Bow

Best way to resume what a ranger is: Jack of all trades, Master of none.

[distracting shot] = among the best skills, let alone interrupts, in the game = master interrupter
[apply poison] = the name is no lie: this skill applies poison like nobody's business = master poison spreader
[charm animal] = only class with a pet, and while pets might not be very good this = master beastmaster by default
versatility =/= relative inferiority in all areas

Div · Jun 29, 2008, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cure For Road Rage

for the pvp version, I replace d-shot with whirling defence, and IATS with rez signet. from experience, i've found that enemies die too fast for d-shot to be useful. cept bosses, of course.

Damn those bosses in PvP.

In case you didn't get the memo, Anet designed rangers to not be so great at outputting pure damage.

Bowstring Badass · Jun 29, 2008, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cure For Road Rage

for the pvp version, I replace d-shot with whirling defence

Stopped right here... Why would you take the most retardedly overpowered interrupt out of your bar for a crappy defense skill?

But yeah rangers = utility not damage.

Cure For Road Rage · Jun 29, 2008, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

Also, I think it's a good idea when posting this sort of build, to show how much damage it does against the Master of Damage.

dps=60. that's w/o using IATS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

my point here is that while dps bow builds can be fun and viable in pve, its ridiculous to include a pvp variant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

id suggest the standard cripshot bar or something like that for the pvp version of this build, as it will do more to hurt the opposing team than any attempt at a bow dps build

I have to disagree with Rhamia. I've used cripshot, BHA, choking gas etc etc for a long time in TA. and I've won far, far more with interrupting builds than cripshot. now, ever since using this high dmg build, I've won with even greater consistency than with BHA. what this says about focusing on bow damage, i dont know for sure, since so much varies depending on the teams I face. But I do know that it is not "ridiculous." hmmm...or maybe it's just most human enemies come prepared to face an interrupter and are unprepared against this bow damage approach.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

I'm sure your build does fine damage for a Ranger, but I sincerely doubt it would fill the "Damage" slot in a well built team. If you're playing with HH it doesn't matter what you run, but in most normal teams you would probably be expected to shutdown enemies or apply pressure with degen.

sigh. that is totally true. which is why I can only run this with people I know in pvp. or pugs in pve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

Why would you take the most retardedly overpowered interrupt out of your bar for a crappy defense skill?

good point.

odly · Jun 29, 2008, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cure For Road Rage

16 expertise, 9 marksmanship, 9 fire magic.

Change that to

13 expertise, 13 marksmanship, 10 fire magic.

You'll do a bit more damage and the breakpoint for 5 energy skills is at 13 expertise. 2 extra damage from glass arrows at 16 expertise is not worth it and 9 marksmanschip for a DPS build is too low.

Rhamia Darigaz · Jun 30, 2008, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cure For Road Rage

I have to disagree with Rhamia. I've used cripshot, BHA, choking gas etc etc for a long time in TA. and I've won far, far more with interrupting builds than cripshot. now, ever since using this high dmg build, I've won with even greater consistency than with BHA. what this says about focusing on bow damage, i dont know for sure, since so much varies depending on the teams I face. But I do know that it is not "ridiculous." hmmm...or maybe it's just most human enemies come prepared to face an interrupter and are unprepared against this bow damage approach.

the cripshot bar has plenty of interrupts for a decent ranger to be able to consistently interrupt with it, so i don't see how its not an "interrupting build"
i don't really consider TA an effective area to judge the competitive value of a bulid.
from my experience it seems more likely that people would be more prepared to counter direct damage than interrupts, as the former is just slightly more common.

chesterocks7 · Jun 30, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29

if you are in pve, go ahead and play any build you like. if going for pvp, play what you enjoy, but just be prepared to get a lot of crap from ppl for not playing the way they think you should. the point of the game is to have fun, so play however you enjoy. unfortunately there are a lot of childish assholes in the gaming community who feel the need to give you crap for not playing how they think you should. just ignore them and play whatever you enjoy playing.

Targren · Jun 30, 2008, 02:46 PM // 14:46

My $.02

[Zojun's Shot] + [Point Blank Shot] - [Lightning Reflexes]/[Whirling Defense]/[Throw Dirt] == GG Ranger.

Rhamia Darigaz · Jun 30, 2008, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterocks7

if you are in pve, go ahead and play any build you like. if going for pvp, play what you enjoy, but just be prepared to get a lot of crap from ppl for not playing the way they think you should. the point of the game is to have fun, so play however you enjoy. unfortunately there are a lot of childish assholes in the gaming community who feel the need to give you crap for not playing how they think you should. just ignore them and play whatever you enjoy playing.

i dont believe the people who say "this will not work in pvp" are saying that becuase its not how they "think" the game should be played. its because the build is sub-optimal and will not work as well as others in a competitive environment.
so sure, he should be prepared to get a lot of crap if he plays this in pvp, but he should also be prepared to lose if he uses it in formats that matter (read:gvg)

Trvth Jvstice · Jun 30, 2008, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterocks7

if you are in pve, go ahead and play any build you like. if going for pvp, play what you enjoy, but just be prepared to get a lot of crap from ppl for not playing the way they think you should. the point of the game is to have fun, so play however you enjoy. unfortunately there are a lot of childish assholes in the gaming community who feel the need to give you crap for not playing how they think you should. just ignore them and play whatever you enjoy playing.

Of course in PVE play the way you want with HH, but if you're in a group of real players, be sure to ping your build, because if it's in a difficult area they probably expect you to be using a few key skills that will help the team through the Mission/Quest.

My PVP play is limited to Ft Aspenwood. I usually play a Nec, or a Warrior there. The Rangers that totally bug the hell out of my Nec there are the ones with interrupt/shutdown skills. The Rangers that totally annoy my Warrior there are the ones putting conditions on me left and right. The Rangers there that do otherwise - I really don't pay much attention to. (Except Touchers, they can be a pain if you aren't prepared for them)

In more coordinated/higher end PVP, your teammates will expect you to use a build that will help the TEAM. So, it's not a matter of being concerned about what others think, it's a matter of playing your character the way it's supposed to be played to fit into the team build.

chesterocks7 · Jun 30, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

i dont believe the people who say "this will not work in pvp" are saying that becuase its not how they "think" the game should be played. its because the build is sub-optimal and will not work as well as others in a competitive environment.
so sure, he should be prepared to get a lot of crap if he plays this in pvp, but he should also be prepared to lose if he uses it in formats that matter (read:gvg)

i said he should play what he enjoys. i highly doubt that a sub-par build that causes his team to lose every game is going to be very enjoyable for him. however, if someone for some reason enjoys playing a build that does not work well, let them play it. its a video game so they should play to enjoy, not to be the best player out there.

Rhamia Darigaz · Jul 01, 2008, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterocks7

i said he should play what he enjoys. i highly doubt that a sub-par build that causes his team to lose every game is going to be very enjoyable for him. however, if someone for some reason enjoys playing a build that does not work well, let them play it. its a video game so they should play to enjoy, not to be the best player out there.

see the last paragraph of the poster above you, i dont feel like writing it again.
edit: but i will anyway.
if for some reason i wanted to go start a group in TA and a ranger pinged this build, i'd kick him. honestly, i wouldnt even ask him to consider changing his build becasue he obviously doesnt know how to play a ranger well (note that the OP considered taking dshot off his bar for whirling defense, in the pvp variant). i dont think this is unfair; if he wants to play that build, hes welcome to find some other people who dont mind playing with him, but to suggest that he has some right to play whatever he wants in my, or anyone elses, team is simply wrong.

chesterocks7 · Jul 01, 2008, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

see the last paragraph of the poster above you, i dont feel like writing it again.
edit: but i will anyway.
if for some reason i wanted to go start a group in TA and a ranger pinged this build, i'd kick him. honestly, i wouldnt even ask him to consider changing his build becasue he obviously doesnt know how to play a ranger well (note that the OP considered taking dshot off his bar for whirling defense, in the pvp variant). i dont think this is unfair; if he wants to play that build, hes welcome to find some other people who dont mind playing with him, but to suggest that he has some right to play whatever he wants in my, or anyone elses, team is simply wrong.

What I said before applies now, if he brings a failing build to your team in TA, I highly doubt he's going to find any enjoyment in it, unless your team is so good that they win without him and he thinks his build somehow contributed to the win. I'm saying this under the assumption that the OP enjoys succeeding in the game and not ruining others experiences. You have the right to kick a player from your team if he doesn't have the build you're looking for, and he has the right to play whatever build he wants, unless he's trying to play a build on your team other than what you're looking for. I got th impression that the OP primarily plays PvE over PvP, and yes, he does have the right to play whatever build he wants. If someone elses build is ruining your experience, don't play with them.

Div · Jul 02, 2008, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

i dont believe the people who say "this will not work in pvp" are saying that becuase its not how they "think" the game should be played. its because the build is sub-optimal and will not work as well as others in a competitive environment.
so sure, he should be prepared to get a lot of crap if he plays this in pvp, but he should also be prepared to lose if he uses it in formats that matter (read:gvg)

Agreed. The thing about GvG, HA, and even TA is that they require team builds. It doesn't matter what your individual build is if it doesn't fit into the team's philosophy. Plus, if I wanted damage, I'd take a warrior or paragon, not some ranger that tries to do high damage. If I take a ranger, it'll be for something unique that the class offers (interruption, movement control with cripshot).

To an extent this is true in places like AB/RA. It is sub-optimal because it doesn't perform ANY of the necessary objectives well. I can cap shrines better on a fire ele or dervish. I can kill a target better on a sin. I can output more consistent damage on a warrior. I can control movement better on a cripshot or water ele. I can support teams better with ritualists, paragons, and monks. So why would you want this build? You don't, unless you enjoy and have fun playing "unique" builds that are sub-optimal.

You're trying too hard to make your ranger do big damage, while ignoring the fact that rangers aren't designed to do big damage. It's like those people who think putting 8 damage/life stealing blood magic skills to output "high DPS." It doesn't work.

Cure For Road Rage · Jul 03, 2008, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Did I give the impression that I am, as several of you assumed, somehow "ruining others' PVP experiences?" I'm sorry, what I said was "I can only run this with people I know in pvp. or pugs in pve." There you have it, let that be the end of assumptions.
you'd think it's obvious that when some1 titles a thread "yet another attempt at high damage ranger build," he's expecting a certain kind of response. lol.
anyways, thank you Odly, for that suggestion about putting both marksmanship and expertise at 13 ^_^. You were right.

gw_poster · Jul 09, 2008, 12:58 AM // 00:58

for "high damage" in RA, where 'sub-optimal' builds are rampant btw, try a R/D, or a VoS archer (see wiki for the builds)...ur not going to take down a warrior in seconds, but squishies like mes and ele's are quickly taken down. For the R/D, I run a modified impurity farmer, which includes throw dirt to shutdown intro combos from annoying sins and ease melee pressure. With the self-heals and block stance, the R/D is consistently the last one standing in my experience in RA. I play PvE mainly, but when bored running gimmicky RA builds breaks the monotony of title-grinding, and I get the added bonus of glad points/z-keys...You'll probably get a rash of insults from wannabe PvP pros for being a scythe-wielding ranger, but hey - it's about fun, not what some virtual asswipe thinks about how you like to play a video game. Besides, the insults will most likely come from someone laying on their back at the end of the match

Have fun and good luck.

mmkay -- let the flames begin